The Maggie Wynn Podcast
Overcomer, walking in freedom, healing from past hurts, and trauma. Walking in Forgiveness, grace and mercy. https://maggiewynn.com/FB: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=547354566IG: Overcomer_Wif
The Maggie Wynn Podcast
Marked Up: Set Apart In A Loud World
What does it really mean to live “marked up” by God in a world that rewards blending in? We sit down with pastor, father, and author Paul Santos to unpack sanctification in plain language and everyday choices—from what we watch and where we go to who we let shape our thinking. Paul’s metaphor of tattoos becomes a powerful picture: each mark tells a story of God’s work, forming a collage of grace, growth, and resilience that sets you apart without turning you into a caricature.
We get practical about standards, temptation, and habits that lose their grip as your mind is renewed. Paul shares how perseverance carries you through the mid-journey dip, when showing up feels pointless and faith feels quiet. He challenges the common script: many of us claim we’d die for Christ one day, but won’t speak up or step out today. Drawing from Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, he argues that boldness isn’t bravado—it’s obedience rooted in who God is, not in what we hope he’ll do for us. We also reframe fear as magnification; whatever we focus on grows. Put God back in view, and courage follows.
Paul’s heart for youth shines as we talk identity, seeds of truth that mature over time, and creating safe spaces for confession and healing. His imagery of mercy and grace—rescue from the flames, then carried home—grounds the gospel in living color. If you’ve wrestled with church hurt, disappointment, or a “Sunday-only diet” of faith, this conversation offers a way back to daily rhythms with God, compassionate boundaries, and a community that builds rather than breaks.
Grab Paul’s book “Marked Up” on Amazon, share it with someone new to the faith, and pass this episode to a friend who needs a steady word. If this encouraged you, follow the show, leave a quick review, and tell us: where do you need to stand firm this week?
@maggiewynn YouTube
So welcome to Overcome A Podcast, the Maggie Wynn Show. I am Maggie Wynn, your host, and today I have the honor of presenting to you a friend of mine that we I had the privilege of working together with Miss Cookie Rodriguez at Street Church. He's a father, he's a pastor, he's a great husband from what I've seen him. You know, they say your life ministers more than your words. So I have really seen him interact with his uh wife and his children. And so I just want to thank you, Paul, for saying yes and coming on to uh the my heaven show.
SPEAKER_01:So tell us, welcome.
SPEAKER_04:I have your book here. We are gonna have the QR code passing in the back behind us, and it's already on our Facebook. Please share it. Um please comment, leave a message, and let's just do this.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. No, um, thank you for inviting me, first of all. So marked up was a project I did, and I was it had the idea of um so being a marked up, you would uh always assume with like tattoos, right? Or you have a somebody who's marked up is usually somebody who has a lot of tattoos. And so uh I think in the beginning there I kind of touched on this. But um in the same way that somebody who has like, I don't have any, so I don't really like this isn't really my my point of view, but I I've what I've noticed outside looking in, most people who have like sleeves or a lot of tattoos, a lot of their tattoos have stories, uh they have meaning. Uh it they sometimes I I know some friends that have built their sleeve over time, and it's a beautiful like collage of different things, and that's the same thing I think with our faith, is uh every uh experience, every star, everything that we've experienced in our life uh is a um it's almost like an opportunity to like show what God has done in our lives. So living marked up, um living a life of being marked by God. So it has like a few meanings with the tattoos, the that, but then also being marked by God, um where God marks us because he set us apart. And so really, if we want to kind of get to the the core of the book, it's really about sanctification, about being set apart. And so um I use the illustration of the tattoos just to kind of convey the idea of being marked up to having these different marks, because usually those people uh are they stand out, you know. Like when you in a crowd, oh man, tattoo. I'm always drawn with people who have tattoos. I don't know what is that what does that mean?
SPEAKER_04:Because you know, I noticed in the book you say you don't have any. I don't have any. Neither do I. I wanted to get one and like get 40 and 10.
SPEAKER_00:I've always wanted to sweet.
SPEAKER_04:My kids were like, Wait, you're 40, we're just a man.
SPEAKER_00:Now we're too old for them, right? Yeah, um, but no, uh, but I use that as an example to kind of show uh spiritual truth of like what it means to be marked up because when you live for Jesus, you're gonna stand out. You're gonna like look weird, you're going to draw attention, you know, people are going to look at you differently. Um so I think it's it's uh uh good imagery for what it means to be set apart, marked, and living a lifestyle that's kind of uh counter to the culture and what's going on in the world today.
SPEAKER_04:Do you think it was hard for you to live a life of sanctification?
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:What does that mean for those that are cloning?
SPEAKER_00:It's just the process of being set apart. The word sanctification is just the process of like being set apart from the culture. It's what in the context of what it means to be a Christian. Uh, we are separate from the world. We're here in this world, but we're not living uh of the world, so we're not supposed to partake of um the things of this world or conform to it or to know to be like it, we're here to impact it. And so the process of sanctification is God when we're sinners, uh, when we're saved, it's us renewing our mind daily, us uh living to be like Christ every day. It's a process, it's not like a you wake up one day and you're like different.
SPEAKER_04:What are some of the steps that you took for that sanctification? There was nothing standard or something that was very difficult. What does that mean?
SPEAKER_00:Like, yeah, no, no, no. So that's part of the part of the the part of the like lingo, right, is sanctification. And I don't think I even use the word sanctification in this book. No, but I use the word center part, I use the word mark, I use the word um these words that mean the same thing to be to live a lifestyle differently from our culture. And so uh what that looks like practically uh can be a few different things. Hey, I'm not gonna hang out with this fan of friends that always go to the bars, and I don't go to bars anymore. Uh I don't hang out with uh clubs, lounges, you know, um and and that might be a start, you know. I have friends that do go to those places. I just don't go there with them. I I'll go hang out at a restaurant or we'll go do stuff or we'll go places other than there, you know what I mean? So it's not a it's not a uh a knock to any of that, but what I'm saying is is uh when you choose to live different, like you're gonna you're not you have your standards. I'm not gonna do this, so I'm not going to these places. These are things that I struggle with. So if you if people who struggle with getting drunk, uh and and they have friends, they have friends who always go to places where there's a lot of alcohol. So maybe like maybe not hang out with them where there's a lot of alcohol, right? Uh I had friends when I stopped drinking that were very anxious and made sure that we didn't hang out in in places that that where there wasn't alcohol. Now we can go to Chili's and they can get their thing, and I want to give my cub zero, and you know, we're good. Uh, but I don't struggle with it as much.
SPEAKER_04:Isn't that the beauty of God transforming us? Yeah. Eventually those things that once held us captive where we were like bound to those things or a a simpler what would be something that controlled us.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:That we no longer it no longer affects us when we're around it anymore. It becomes a it comes a time where you just eventually kind of like it's like working out.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's you build your resistance to these things. So um again, living separately uh it means you're thinking differently. I think the other that's the other part of it is um I I hold a higher standard now. So uh with my wife and my kids and me, um, you know, there's certain places we just don't go. And there's certain things we don't say, there's certain TV shows we don't watch. And it's not because we're religious, it's not because, oh, like God's gonna come judge us, but there's certain things that as a Christian I feel like we shouldn't be putting it in front of our eyes, in front of our ears, uh, or things we shouldn't be saying. You know, I don't I don't I used to struggle with cussing when I was a teenager. Um, and I had a hard time letting go of that. Uh and it when I stopped listening to a lot of music that had that that language, it became easier to like not do it. It wasn't in my front of my face too much. And now if a cuss word comes on, I'm I don't even recognize it. I don't even it doesn't even register in my head that this is what was said. There's been plenty of movies where I'm like, oh, we should watch that movie, and my wife watches, I have a lot of cussing in it. It's like it did, like I didn't remember like one time it said something, and and it was like, oh dang it, I didn't even it didn't even register that this was what was going on. So yeah, I think it's just um whatever your standard is, like maturity, yeah. Yeah, because I think it I don't think that's the thing about Christianity. There's not like a set rule book that if we do these things, you're a Christian, because there might be something that's a struggle for you that's not a struggle for me. And according to the word, as long as I don't do it around you, right? Well I know it's a struggle for you, then I'm I'm not in the wrong for doing it here. So a lot of times people hear that, it's like, oh, that's hypocrisy, that's why it was like it's a it's well we're all hypocrites, yeah. So but but I think but I think that's the the point is to when we live out of our salvation, when you live out your salvation, you're in a different place than I am, than that person is. So because we're in different places in our lives, uh I should uphold the word with you fully and not and and be aware that hey, this this tips my sister, so I'm not going to come around with this foolishness wonder. Or this might, you know, somebody When you say to gossip.
SPEAKER_03:When people gossip, like we should come around with this sister because she loves to gossip.
SPEAKER_00:I I think Yassi's wrong. It is. Anytime that we can't say something like that. Yeah. If you can't say it's a smiley life, you can't be saying that when they're not around either. You know, that's that's uh like uh I think that's what I respect them too. That's what even even a non-Christian would go to and say, yeah, like why do you ask me, bro?
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah, I feel that. We call it communication.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, learn learn say it to my face.
SPEAKER_04:I was thinking of the song that you were um, you said you, I was like, what's your favorite song? So I wanted to put it up on uh, you know, to kind of introduce you to the podcast. And it was um whatever it takes. And so I was like, okay, let me listen to it. So I haven't listened to music like that in a while. But I was like, What do you say? I was like, oh, okay. So I'm like kind of jamming out to it. It's like whatever it takes. It's like whatever it takes, I'm gonna serve God, you know.
SPEAKER_00:And that's that's we asked about like where I went. I mean, this is so weird because this song is very the song is very like takes him off as aggressive. Yeah, it's like yeah, it's like uh but man, like the words, you know, I love it. It's just I'm I'm a big words person, so I I I read lyrics first. And that song uh there's no one the last one was five, the unglosed. So no matter what, right? So that's that's uh that was the time that I tell me lately. Like if that tells me to do something, uh no matter what, man. I'm just I'm gonna go into it.
SPEAKER_04:Now I know I know that we're talking about your book, but I also know you got an album. And that was the first thing that I kind of uh knew you by. Um because you do a lot of the people that uh like the back that they like Hita.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You work for that. Yeah. I'm dabble in music. I I did music and I have some music out. Um I haven't done it in a while, and I really have a heart for it, for the writing part of it.
SPEAKER_04:You think it changes with time as you get away?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't know. I think that uh I don't always write. I feel like I'll always do something, so I might put a song out. But I don't have a desire to like make it a business. Yeah, which is nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with that. I know people that like that's the when you were saying earlier when I feel like when the with the industry is now, you just have to do a lot of a lot of writing. I'm uh my head's not there to like write, you know, a hundred songs this year. I might need two.
SPEAKER_04:So I have a lot of songs. I love to write. I have like over a hundred songs. But I have not seen I've not done anything with it. I'm just there.
SPEAKER_00:I just I would not make it for me, it's I think if you if you put a uh a title on it, it's like a a really cool hobby. I I don't think I'm taking it experience as a business, but I like the process and I'm I'm I'm down the right as well anytime.
SPEAKER_01:So let me ask you this. What would you tell those that are new to the faith?
SPEAKER_04:Uh we're gonna be encouragement to them as far as walking faith.
SPEAKER_00:Uh yeah, just um keep walking. I mean, it's gonna get tough. It's going to it's going to you're gonna want to quit. But I feel anything, anything that's worth doing, you're gonna want to quit. You start a business, you can get to a point where medicine's not cool anymore, I want to quit. You start uh uh a podcast, you're gonna get to a point in the middle of it. Episode 286, do I want to keep doing this? Yeah, and so I think anything worth doing uh is going to you're gonna have that. But I think what it takes is, and this was something that I think as a culture we're missing right now, is perseverance. Yeah. I don't think a lot of um people in general have more like have the the the thing in them to like keep pushing, but if you can find that to like keep pushing, find the the the the strength, like praying to God, God like your joy is my strength. God, when I'm weak, you're strong. I think those types of prayers, and we look at look at the book of Psalms, the things that that David was praying, it was all like, God, I don't know what I'm doing, God, I don't know what's going on, but like, but I know you're God. Yeah, like he had to keep reminding himself that I don't know what what's going on right now, and it looks hopeless, but like I don't know your God. My my encouragement is keep pushing, keep going, keep holding to the standard, keep worshiping Jesus, keep showing up to church when you don't feel like it. You know, the same the same advice you would get to somebody who needs to go to the gym, bro. Keep going. Yeah, keep pushing, keep motivating yourself. It's the same advice because that's what it takes. It takes that like when you don't feel like it to keep showing up. When you don't want to be there, when you don't see what the purpose of uh this is, keep showing up, keep relying on God, keep leaning on God. You know, so that would be my my biggest thing is when things get rough, like keep pushing, keep going, keep seeking God. The Bible constantly has things like that where keep knocking, I will answer. You seek out you will if you seek me, you will find me. And Jesus is very clear about that. Like, you're not you're not here by yourself. Like, find community, keep pushing, keep motivating. Don't get around people who are going to uh tear you down, but find people that are gonna build you up. There's people out there that will build you up. Like, I'll promise you that. Uh there's a community of people somewhere that's going to build you up, and you've got to find it. Uh, which means that you find a group of people, mmm, y'all keep making fun of me a little bit too much.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right? That's what you gotta keep the movies. Sometimes you gotta keep the movies. Yeah, set your boundaries, have your standards, and five people there in the building. And there are people also like that. That's so true. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:What does your wife think about you uh diving deeper into the she open?
SPEAKER_00:You know, no, my left, no, uh, my wife's awesome. She uh I was very thankful for her patience with me through this book because there's been days where I'm like, I need to go into writing. She's okay. I need to like give me can I get like two hours to write. And she's been very gracious. Uh, but I she's read it and she was she I mean, this is these are conversations we and her have. I think a lot of it is like we've both had these conversations, but she's told me she's very proud and you know, very encouraging. And so I'm thankful for her because she really has been um a lot of the conversations that we've had, we've bounced off each other, and she really um has just been an ear to hey, what do you think about this? What is what does this sound like to you? Hey, I'm I want to rank about this, but what is and she's she's been uh and she helped edit the book. She's an English teacher, so she really yeah, so she had to read it. But but no, she read it. She she she really um was a very encouraging voice uh to help. Um she helped me format when she was editing format smelling the wording. And so um that helped a lot with uh so she was very involved in that process of it. So no, I'm thankful for her. Uh uh this would not have been done without the support and the love and the encouragement from Angel Sphantos.
SPEAKER_04:Hey! The only one I remembers Ileana. And I guess because you were she was pregnant at the time.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's been long?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Wow, so we have a Liliana now, and then we have a Pablo, and then we have an Olivia who's two.
SPEAKER_04:Olivia, Olivia's the one I remember. And Olivia.
SPEAKER_00:She's two now. She's two years. Whew. Yeah, so she's yeah. So that's the family right there. They're uh love. Love the kids. They're very um they're encouraging too. They're always like, Daddy, you're uh, yeah. Get you. I love I love the demo. Do you ever sing to them? I sing annoyingly to them all the time, yeah. Uh they don't sing. Um my son likes to play drums. Uh my daughter, she likes to like she likes to do like active stuff, like sports track and and and soft drum basketball, which is kind of like that's one right now. Uh and then we can find your book. Uh it's on Amazon. Uh on Amazon. I think that's not uh it's on the uh so yeah, it's on Amazon. Uh it's not publicly there, so it's only right now the only place it's available. The uh ebook um is pleased. We have the um limited. So it comes with that. You can download it completely. Um yeah, it's on it's on Amazon.
SPEAKER_04:I like this uh chapter four. It says I'm gonna be the one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I was like, there should be a chart.
SPEAKER_00:It's a phone.
SPEAKER_04:Is it? Okay. Tell us about that one.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so uh this is just uh I'm gonna be the one that's really just um the idea behind it is Shadow and Me Checking the British though. Nobody else is gonna stand, I'll stand. Uh if nobody else is willing to, then I will. And so I think part of the part of that chapter talks about the the stones crying out and the um and nature crying out, if we don't do it, somebody will. Uh nature tells of God's glory. Um animals, the animal kingdom, the when you look at nature, like that is God's figure over that. So if no human ever talked about God, like nature is shouting, his creation is shouting uh right now. So uh the idea is hey, don't don't be a voiceless Christian, but really um learn how to go back to persevering. Like, if I'm the only one standing, then that's what it's gonna be. I'm just gonna be standing by myself. And so that heart of what Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendino was was um if God can deliver us, He will, because He can. But even if He doesn't, like, I'm still not gonna die.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I think that heart behind that of being like even if nobody else stands with me, I'm still gonna stand. Like, because my my faith isn't dependent on who's standing with me. It's depending on God who is in the world. Come on now, right? And so it's not dependent on people, it's dependent on who got it. So that's right. Um I heard uh our worship leader, um uh one of my worship leaders, uh Mr. Bobby, he said something the other day a few months ago. He said uh uh pertaining Shandra Misha and Abendigo that they weren't um they weren't standing because of what God could do. Meaning like he's gonna stand with us, and that's why we're gonna like stand. It was because of who he is.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:It was yeah. It's because because he's God, whether he comes and gets me or not, like he deserves the means to like mouth. And I think that's that's the idea behind that part. Behind that is I'm going to be the one regardless of who's standing with it or not. And that's the very bold thing to say in nowadays where it's very easy to like don't stand out, don't rock above with me, you know. But we have to, I mean, I think I think as Christians, we have to take a stand up for righteousness when the world is telling us that righteousness isn't righteous.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Because it's hard to serve God when you realize that he doesn't follow through for you.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and like you just said. That's that's why it's hard, is because there are people who see God for what he can do. Instead of, man, this is God.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:He's a creator, like we talk about somebody who's gonna ride or die, like a lot of Christians don't ride or die for God. Like, when you talk about a ride or die, that means I'm gonna ride for you or I'll die for you. And God, and a lot of people were like, well, if God ain't riding, I ain't dying. You know what I'm saying? Wait, what? And so we have to we we had to realize that, like, that's we have to realize that that like what is it again? If I ain't going to if God ain't riding, I ain't dying. But that's what I'm I ain't dying. I keep saying that, but I keep as a joke, but really the heart behind that is it really is uh we should be like I'm standing up for God's truth, whether he shows up or not.
SPEAKER_02:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00:If God is like, I'm not gonna show up for whatever reason, because his way he's a higher than my way, so he has a better reason than I do. I'm still gonna be here. I'm still gonna be here and trying that God is God. Like it doesn't make him less God because he didn't show up for me. Right? Like it doesn't make him less of a God because he didn't come through for me when I wanted to, how I wanted him to. He's still God. And I think a lot of a lot of people in the faith they a lot of people in the faith, they really I'm gonna make a bull statement here. Go ahead. Um when it comes to that, we we think less of God because he didn't pull through. That's right. We think less of God, that's why we leave the faith. Because oh, he didn't come through for me. He's less God. No, he's the same guy. He just didn't cool, he he just didn't do what you wanted him to do. That's right. Right? And so that's the heart, that's the idea, is like I'm gonna stand even if he pulls through for me how I want him to, or not. I have to trust that God has a higher way of dealing with my stuff. And if I feel like he needed to come through and he's like, I don't need to come through like that, I'm gonna come through this way. I need to, I need to be angry at go sacrifice Isaac.
SPEAKER_03:Come on now.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so he's packing up his stuff. Um he's waiting for God to say no, packing up his stuff. Alright, Isaac, let's go. You're walking towards the mountain. God still hasn't said no, okay. We're climbing the mountain. God hasn't said no, okay. Isaac, get on the altar. The angel came through, right? There's like right when he's on the he's about to do it, and it's like, how many of us will follow through to that point? Abraham was gonna do it. And it was God that stopped him. And I think it was the same guy. Abraham knew something. He's like, God's gonna pull through one way or another. It may not be how I it may not be a no on the way there, it may not be a no on the mountain, it may not be a, but it's gonna be oh, a ram in the bush? Okay, okay, I see how God works. And and I think we don't we don't stay with God long enough for him to show himself faithful. We don't we don't stick with God long enough for him to show himself faithful with us that we do. Guilty.
SPEAKER_02:No, I'm I'm thinking that from the time.
SPEAKER_00:Stay from experience, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um and so, but I think that's the that's the that's the thing is you grow into a place of you realize, you know what, man, he's come through for me.
SPEAKER_04:I gotta think back. That's what you said. Think from the goodness of God. Think of all the things he's done for you. Only when you can dwell on those things you realize that in a mature state, that like, oh my god, yes, yes, he has been there. Oh my god, he came through. So you you gotta live long enough and walk with him long enough to realize, oh my god, I have to do it.
SPEAKER_00:It is, it's it's yeah, it is. We have to we forget how how quick we forget the things he already did, right? Yeah, it's it's uh, oh man, this is the thing that he didn't come through on. But like you woke up yesterday, and you woke up this morning, you have breath in your lungs, and you were, you know, like God has used you in the mid- in whatever, and we begin to then look at the one thing that God didn't do how I wanted him to do it, and we curse God because whatever. And so, and I and I know I'm I know this is what the book was written for, was for people who I know there are people who are frustrated with God, and they're frustrated with the church, they're frustrated with people. I think there's a quote in here where I say we there are people who leave and get offended with God because they think he's as flawed as the people that hurt him. Hurt them. But God's not flawed. It's the people that are flawed, and they're the ones that hurt you. It's God that wants you back and wants to restore you. And I think if we understand that, understand who God is at the core, uh, I think it will help us navigate some of our offenses, some of our hurt, because people will hurt us, Christian or not. People will offend us, Christian or not. I hate to say some pastors might offend these, and it might not be on purpose. It might not be a they malicious that did something, but you're gonna get offended one day, and it's not gonna be because somebody had a hate, it's not because you had a hater. It's because you have an enemy who wants to destroy you, he just wants to twist things around you and deceive you into thinking that these people don't like you, you know, and or God doesn't love you, you know. Uh so we have to be careful and it really leaned on our relationship with God, really lean on uh who he is um and what what he has already done for us. He's already done the work. That's what it's up to us to like, I'm here, I'm still here, I'm still faithful. He's faithful, I need to be faithful.
SPEAKER_04:And I think that also comes back to a part of communication with God. Like a like a one-on-one with him, because you know, as our natural selves, we are naturally survivors. So every time we have a communication with someone, we're in communication with somebody else, we will tend to be in survival mode and take things offensive to heart because we're in survival mode. It's our nature. Right. But when you come and have that relationship with God, he's communicating his word back to you, you're communicating with him what you you want help in, what you you want him to change, then you have developed this uh uh you begin to bring down those walls, um of those barriers that you no longer become offended by those things, but God is beginning to tell you through his Holy Spirit, hey, listen, uh, we need to work with this in this area. This is what my word is saying. And when you're able to receive that type of communication, then you're you're able to communicate better here.
SPEAKER_00:Uh a lot of what the Bible, the lifespan of a Christian in the Bible is for us, is learning to depend on God, learning to trust him, spending time with him, uh, spending time in his word, spending time praying, uh worshiping. Uh there that's a lot of things to invest into a relationship with God that I think the the average, I want to say the average American is not willing to do. Because it's a lot. Right? Uh I'm not gonna say the average Christian, because I think a lot of Christians do do that, but there are some Christians who who have a hard time with their busy life to find time to pray, find time to read, find time to worship, find time to do these things, to invest into a relationship with Jesus, uh, that when it comes to things like God, direction, God, where do you want me to? Well, you have to spend time with him to know his words. You have to spend time with him to know what he wants you to do. So when you hear a message about faith and it's like, you know, work out your own salvation, you can't even do that because you haven't spent time with God. We we've given God a half a weekend. And that's all it's it is, but it is a Sunday. Half a Sunday. You're right, half a Sunday. Um and then can you imagine like if you only ate Sunday mornings? If that's all the food he had for the week was a big old steak, a big old steak on Sunday morning, and then when by Tuesday, he'd be gonna go, oh, I'm starting. And you're probably gonna be bound on trust for them. You're probably gonna be, that's how that's how we live our spiritual lives. We only feed once a week for half a day. And when you think, well, why God, where are you? God's here, but you're not present with him. You know, you're not and I a lot a lot of the stuff that I I feel like I when I just express my heart, it comes out I feel like harsh. No, it's so funny. It turns out harsh, but really my heart is it's like these are things I've had to work on. This is not none of a lot of stuff I'm saying is stuff that like I've had to kick myself in the butt about because I'm talking to me first. I feel like a lot of times is I need to hear it first. I need this because I need to, I need it. And so I my heart really is not to be, I mean it is to be harsh, but it is to be first loving and to to pray that you accept the content or the heart behind what's being said. Um and so I know there are people who like I've talked to, and it's like they stop talking to me because they asked too much. I'm like, no, like this is the word, like it's not me. I didn't say it, you know.
SPEAKER_04:And so uh I think that's the best way to win an argument with someone is just give them back. The word yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Give them the word. You go argue with the one who wrote it. It's a baby now. But no, and I'll I say that that's not everybody, but I know that's right. I when I speak in these like Christians say this, it's it's a very like select few. I know it's a but it's enough of the Christians that are the loudest on social media or are the loudest in our lives that dude, that's not even right. That's right, that wasn't even in love, that wasn't even uh scriptural, you know. And uh and so that's my art is to really share and to kind of respond to the things, the the the the misinformation or the like misquoting of scripture and the mis um, you know, uh how do you say the things that we get wrong I don't get it right all the time, but the things that are like, oh this is not right, let me go study it, and then I'll address it, or I have something something more in my knowledge here that's okay. I have a better understanding of this. Let me share, let me add it to my little arsenal, you know, as on top of the youth or whatever. But yeah.
SPEAKER_04:What is it? The youth when you're a pastor over, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I love a pastor youth, stand up. Uh no, no, no. Um yeah, no, I love I love young people. I think that's the like high school. Middle school, high school is um is a generation. I think since I've been a kid, that generation, like whether you're a millennial, whether you're uh Gen Z, whether you're Gen Alpha, whatever, every generation looks at the middle school and high school and they're like, you're lost. When I was a kid, we were lost. When I was when I was uh in my early 20s, uh that generation's lost. When I was in my early 30s, that's middle school and high school, it's always them, right? And so I think that's a crucial time period for all of us where uh we make a lot of decisions based on the world uh at that age, whether we like certain things, whether we don't like certain things, uh, and we carry that throughout our life. And I think that that carries on. So we can plant feeds there. I think I think as young people get older, uh as they mature, I believe a lot of those feeds will take root, a lot of those feeds will see growth in that. So I love I love young people. I love the the middle school, high school. I have a heart for them. That's around the time that I really had the most questions, I feel like. Yeah. And um I I want to be that to, you know, I had I had leaders in my life that answer those questions for me at that age. So I just want to be that for somebody else.
SPEAKER_04:That's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Middle school is hard because I think medical school, you're trying to figure out where you fit in. Yes, who you are, your identity. Like, I don't even want to look like my mom and dad. I don't want to, I don't want I want to find my own self. Like, who am I? And the reality is that you want to having both traits of both sides and then around those people that are a part of your everyday lives because they're your parents aren't the only influences in your life. So it's like well, I just want to say thank you for saying yes to be on the show today. And I hope that you as a listener are uh have been able to receive something beautiful from this message and also from the book. I pray that you will pick it up. Amazon and Amazon.com, my favorite place to show. And so thank you for watching Overcomer, um, the Mango and Show podcast. And if you need information on Paul Santos, you can go to Facebook at Paul Santos, and you can also go to the QR code that we'll link below, and also that's behind us to purchase this book. Please share it, um, give it to someone that's new in the faith, uh, buy it, invest in someone's life, maybe someone in the your youth group that it could be um given to. It's got some beautiful quotes, and the book is awesome. Um, I commend you for the work that you put in that's a lot. It's a lot of work. So yeah, it's a lot of work and getting things right in order, yeah, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Sharing those stories and those things, whether in Temple Commerce or not. I mean, I think that's awesome, but thank you for um building something that like the platform for for that. So uh no, thank you. I did write a book, uh it's called Marked Up and the uh the heart behind it and really the idea behind it, like this was 10 years of the making for me. So I totally feel you know when you say that. Like um where like when I started, I was like, man, I just I didn't really have a uh end goal of like I'm gonna write a book for whatever temperature, not just I'll write music, so let me just write a book. That was just kind of the idea. Uh but as I started studying and getting into um more of the topics and just looking at um what it means to be a Christian in today's culture, um I mean just more ideas came, more concepts. Uh I really felt like uh it wasn't it started out as just like a small thing, uh maybe a pamphlet, and I was gonna write maybe like a little short three-page thing, but as it grew, it was just it was encouraging me, and I was like, I want I wanted to encourage others and encourage uh I say everybody, but really mainly the younger and the when I say younger, I mean like newer to the faith, or people who don't know Jesus yet that are like struggling with you know what doesn't it mean to be a Christian. And so that's the heart behind it. I think with that, when you reach those, you reach the ones that have been in church for 20 years as well. But if any it's an encouragement, a a call back to, okay, this is why that saved. This is why let me remind myself what it means for being Christian and kind of go back to our first love. Because sometimes we've been staying 20 years, I've been staying since I was a kid, and to go back and say, man, this was my first love, this is my man, I I f I forgot these things, or I was so comfortable in my lifestyle, I didn't I was overlooking certain things, you know. So uh that's that's the hard guy is just to encourage Benoom, but then also people have been saved for a while just to kind of recall some of the things that we're called to do and hopefully, you know, inspire somebody to like come back to Jesus and stuff.
SPEAKER_04:What what was one of the things that was really um hardening you in writing the book?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know if it was the hardest part, but I I don't know like this when I started. I really I went back to when I was first safe. Like really safe when I really found Jesus. Um about 18. Uh I've been in church since I was in kids' church, so I've been in church my whole life. But 18 is really when I was seeking God and really, I feel like had my own uh encounters with God, and it wasn't just my mom's faith, but it turned into like me, my like my relationship with God. Um I had a lot of questions. I like I didn't know I mean I thought I was being honest, but I couldn't tell you like really to find who God is, like who is God for a church? I mean, I you know that, you know, you just know it. You don't really know how to print into words, but you just kind of know these things. And I couldn't bring any of that into words. I couldn't tell you why do we need Jesus? Why did I need a savior? You know, I'm 18 years old and getting ready to go into the world, and I'm like, man, how do I know how to define these things for myself? So I went to Bible school and that really started my like journey on like my faith walk to really seek God, seek after the things of God. And I fell in love with like just the things of God at that time. During that time between 18 and like 21, I really had a lot of encounters with like God, and um he confirmed a lot of things that people had spoken to my life that I was running from. And he also uh just it was just a time of like learning for me. But I remember that time where I had a lot of questions like who is God? Uh why do we need Jesus? Why why Christianity is there's so many other religions, you know. So you have all these basic, I think most Christians have those questions. Why am I a Christian? You know, you come across all that spells. I think reading that spell found, and then by the time in 2015, well, I was I think I was uh 31. 2015, yeah, it was 10 years ago. How long ago? 10 years ago. Uh but yeah, so uh in my it wasn't until my 30s that I really had a foundation and I was like, okay, let me let me ask put this stuff on Facebook because there are answers that I received that I really um felt like, you know, man, this helped me grow. And for me, I just wanted to turn around and and give that to somebody else. And uh I've mentored people and I've you know, as a youth pastor, I'm come in contact with a lot of young people. And so one that's one way I've done it over the years, and this going back. I was like, let me do something that will reach, you know, whoever when I'm not physically there, you know.
SPEAKER_04:It's just very simplified where a youth a young person can pick up the book and read it. And that was and I think that was your agenda.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that was I think that might have been when you say the hardest part, it was simplifying these things that we have put a lot of Christian language to. Yeah. Um, you know, I've been bought by the blood of the Lamb. So we've we know what that means. But somebody who's not saved is like, blood. Blood, what kind of sacrifices are we doing here, you know? And I think that's the idea behind it. You go in in your faith walk, you begin to understand those things for most Christians. So for me, I just want to pass that back to some people who may not know Jesus or are into the faith.
SPEAKER_04:Think of it, think of it like this. When Superman rescues um Lilith Slay from a burning building, mercy is him grabbing her out of the flames, but he doesn't just drop her um mid-air and fly off. Really like that. He painted a beautiful line. Right, right, right. Grace, because I love like comics and everything. Yeah, uh, grace is him carrying her to safety. That's what Jesus did for us. He didn't just pull us out of our sin and leave us hanging, he brought us into something greater. Yes, and you know, when I was when I was reading this part, um I had just gotten out of my prayer time and I remembered the Holy Spirit talking to me about mercy. And I think that you painted a beautiful picture. It's like I literally saw myself falling and then no one there to catch me. Yeah, but then understanding that the love of God and his grace actually caught me. Yeah, and was it's almost like I saw this is what I saw. I saw myself being caught, and then you know, the net of Spider-Man, you know, holding onto the bus that's over there was full of other people. Like I was not the only one that's being rescued, but at the same time, he was rescuing others.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. No, yeah, not like that, right? So mercy and grace could be a very complicated thing because you always see those two things together uh in the Bible. Usually when you see mercy, it's talking about God's grace as well, right behind it. And so the idea is is well, these are two different things, but why are they always together? And it's because of that. It's because mercy was Jesus reaching us, taking us out of hell, right? And and taking us from the things that we do deserve, because we deserve death, or we deserve punishment, but Jesus took us out of that. Uh, but what does he do with the sin, right? Like so the that grace answers that. Grace is come now, you're part of our family. Now you're part of my family, right? I and you became an you were an enemy of mine, right? Took you from death, and now you went from enemy to friend. That's what grace does. It brings us into it as a lot of Christians uh uh one of the terminalizes is he's we've been engrafted into his family. And so that's what grace does. It's it it over the God knows that we did wrong, right? He doesn't like overlook it. He's like, You did me wrong, but I still want to treat you like the son, I still want to treat you like a daughter. And he for the forgiveness and that grace of I know you did wrong, but like because it it it wouldn't mean much if he forgot it. Yeah, it means more that he knows that we're still like, hey, he knows I did that, but he's not treating me like I did that.
SPEAKER_04:And you know the beauty of him forgetting is he has the capability to forget.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right. He but he wanted to but he can remember.
SPEAKER_04:And I think that one of the beautiful things that I have learned is that I'm glad that I remember.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I'm glad that I remember what he brought me out of. The pain doesn't hurt as much, yeah. But now I realize that had I not remembered, then I wouldn't have a testimony.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And then also, I think it also is an example for us, right? To like um God does not ask us to do something he doesn't do himself. Like he we asked him to do something, he's already done. He's already modeled, he's already an example. So he's forgiven us, so you then we should turn around and forgive others. It doesn't mean that we f neglect justice. Like, if you didn't wrong, you're still gonna pay for pay for it depending on how you know how bad it was, right? You're still gonna have justice for it, but I've forgiven you and I let it go out of my heart. So I don't hold you prisoner. You're not prisoner to me anymore. Not even just prisoner to your actions, to the things that you've done. But I let go of leave that situation. I think that's what God wants us to model. It's not it's not a being passive. Because a lot of people think that as messy, that's tough. Like you want it. We live in a culture where we we want to we want to do our own justice.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The Bible doesn't say that. The Bible says that that uh revenge is his. Yeah. Right? Like I'm not here for revenge, I'm here to tell you Jesus, and Jesus is the judge, and he will judge you based according to his word. I'm not the judge.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:I'm yeah, I'm supposed I'm here for like reflecting Jesus. And I think a lot of Christians want to play the part of God of like judging people and exacting revenge and making sure tit for tat, you know? Uh, but I don't think that's really based on what the word says, that's our role. Our role is it to do what Jesus is doing, it's to be obedient to what he tells us to do. And most of the time it's trying to be forgive somebody, they children white children light. Uh and usually those are the like the most beautiful stories of redemption when somebody's wronged us, then get saved, radically saved, and they become I'm thinking of like Paul in the Bible who was killing Christians. And Jesus and God had an encounter with God, and instead of God could have been like, Man, now, for the rest of your life, you're living out here in the corner, hidden somewhere, everybody's gonna forget you, but no, he's gonna know I'm gonna use you, who was who was initially a harm to the kingdom because you were trying to kill Christians, but trying to an enemy of the kingdom.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And you know, even I think new baby Christians design see somebody from their past, know them, and then see them being used by God in the present.
SPEAKER_00:That's hard. Uh I've had leaders that have uh told me some stories of people who have wronged them deeply, physical, sexual harm, and you know, they're left out out there like that, and then years later they come across that person who's been saved in ministry, in a thriving ministry. And you know, it's it is hard. I mean, I I can't imagine not having any closure to that, and then the next time you see this person is like on God's word. You know, that's the first human reaction is are you really like um but I think um I think God doesn't he does do that, he like he's in into redemption, and because we're in a fallen world.
SPEAKER_04:And I I love mercy. Like I love I love I would when I was going through the book, I was picking out some things, but I know it says here Psalm 23, 6 says um that truly goodness and mercy to follow you all all the days of your life. God's mercy is faithful, it chases us down even when we're running in the wrong direction to give them mercy and grace. They make the throne of God a place we can want to and not hide from. This is why I love David so much. He says scripture uh calls him a man after God's own heart, and he was pretty bad.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so yeah, many people confuse that. Why is this he get called a man after God's heart? If he did all these things, like, well, he didn't say he was a good man, he didn't say he was a perfect man. That's good. He said he's a man after God's heart.
SPEAKER_04:And so what does that look like?
SPEAKER_00:That looks like when I messed up, I know where to go. And and every time I was too David messed up, he was in the temple. He was in a temple before God. And you read the psalms and the psalms that he wrote, you hear the why so downcast on my physical very depressed in the beginning of these songs, and towards the middle, he's like, okay, because you're God, and then by the end of it, it's like I give you all the glory. And so he He knew how to repent. Yes, he knew where to he knew how to find God's heart. Yeah. He knew how to seek God's heart, and I think that's the key, is by by this thing, it's like uh, like I said, the the the God's throne room isn't a place to run from. And I think Adam and Eve, when they when they were caught in their sin, uh the first reaction was to run away. And it was God that caught up to them and clothed them. The first thing he did was very perennial, like you're out there naked. He didn't clothe them before because they didn't know they were naked. It was after they realized they were naked and he clothed them. And then, you know, he you know gave them their like justice, right? But it was firstly he was a father and he was gonna cover you, and then we're gonna correct this mess.
unknown:You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I don't like that correction part.
SPEAKER_00:Correction hurts, but it's very necessary for growth.
SPEAKER_04:How what are some examples that people can relate to that are, you know, in their 18, 20s, or new beginners that that you can express on what you um encountered when it came to those situations?
SPEAKER_00:For uh you're talking about like in seeking God or bringing towards God. Uh when I got into ministry, I I had my own life, I've heard people. I've like I was young, had this type of stuff. Uh, when I got into ministry, I understood the the depth of the stuff is not. I had a conversation with like my mom, but I had to like tell her all the things that like are gonna be the testimony that I'm about to share to the world. Um, but it was really it was a hard conversation. But that conversation with her, um, she cried and it hurt it hurt me. I hurt her. Uh, but it was the first step that of trust to for me to gain her trust, but also uh it was just the realization that like this is for real. I'm not running the front, I'm not trying to hide who I am or what I did or whatever. It was more of a like, like David, like this is I'm laying it out. I'm not hiding from it. And when you hide from it, it makes it worse because the things you're hiding make it seem like you're hiding something, and we don't treat people who hide things very uh well, very well. We're kind of you're hiding something, and that was kind of fleasy, you know. And so I think that's the in practical terms, it's just having somebody to talk to. Like if you're going through some things or you just found Jesus and you're like, I have a past, like find somebody to talk to, find community, and if it's not a parent, it's a friend or somebody that you're closer than you can trust. And really having this conversation of like, look, I don't know how to deal with being a Christian because I fit I feel guilty because I did these things. And I think having that conversation, we will find that Jesus through that, like the prodigal son. When we see the prodigal son, you see uh, you know, David continually coming back to Jesus, you see all these things in the Bible where people messed up and they came back to God and God wasn't like get out.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It was always uh correction. It's definitely definitely correction, uh, but it's also like um a welcoming, like I'm correct. My father, uh uh my mother corrects me uh because she's my mother. So I can't have a mother's correction if she didn't bring it back in as a son. Does that make sense? So if it was a stranger correcting me, that doesn't mean is it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The ones closest to us, when they correct us, it hurts more because I'm not gonna give you a spectrum. Is that true? I'm not gonna give you a spectrum, but I'm disappointed.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That sometimes hurts worse than a spanking. We get the the pair that's like I'm disappointed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, even from even from like uh somebody you respect. Yeah, oh yeah, like a uh a mentor, yeah. And she knows you did something wrong and so. Oh yeah. I'm disappointed. I don't even want to space her. Tell me like give me a punch. They would have to permit it, and they're like, ah, you didn't tell me this, but you didn't tell me this, but I know. And so no, but that's that's I mean, that's what it is, is that correction is it doesn't have to be spanking and hitting, but it's very like oh like finding the people we respect and having those conversations, I think, is a big step to like getting closer with God's heart and letting those things that's a little light. The longer they're in the darkness, for sure, those the stinkier things get dark, right? The more you the more you have the uh I like that, the stinkier they get. We have we've had you ever had that old piece of chicken you threw out and bring in the trash can for a week, and you're like, tastes what's fake. That's what it is.
SPEAKER_04:Right, you gotta like take it out and yeah, this is this is how I remember you as a church. You always had something funny to say. The other one says the this is page uh 60. It says uh the every church um wasn't bold because they had perfect theology or the perfect strategy, they were bold because they had already decided, even if it cost me everything, I won't back down. That's what it looks like uh to live bold and be and die bold, refusing to let fear of man be louder than obedience to God. The question isn't, are you willing to die for Jesus someday? The deeper question is are you truly living like you would die for him today?
SPEAKER_00:That was look that was challenging for me. I when I wrote that when I wrote that, I was like, I think a lot of Christians will tell you right now, I'm down for Jesus one day. Because we think of the rapture and we think it's gonna happen like either way, long time for now, right? But that same Christian might might tell you, like, hey, let's let's not talk as long as I'm down here right now. Yeah. We don't want to offend the devil's dad. We don't want to offend him. Yeah, for sure. Whatever. And I'm like, that's why I think like you want to die for him, yeah. And so that was, I feel like I'm getting comfortable enough sometimes where I'm like, I don't want to rock the boat. I don't wanna, you know, it's easier just to, okay, you know, just we don't have to, you know, get into it right now. I don't wanna I don't want to rock the boat right now. And I and that right there is the moments when I has been to live that boldness in those moments. Because in that moment, I was acting like I'm ready to die for him right now. And so, no, yeah, so that that whole that whole thing about fear. Um, we've been talking about fear all month and how um how we overcome fear. And the word never says you get rid of fear. It doesn't say like uh you you have to like you're gonna get rid of fear one day. It's like no, you please it says to fear God. Like put your fear in God. And so the word fear, one of the understandings of the word fear is to magnify. So the thing that we're fearing is the thing that we're magnifying. So where do we magnify it? Am I am I fearing God? Am I magnifying him deeper than my problems? Or is my fear in this problem and it's magnified? That's why when you're in the fear, I don't know if you ever noticed, when here is fear, this thing seems like the biggest thing in the world.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because we've magnified it to here. And we can't see God, we can't the other strange thing I always use is our thumb. And I'm like, if I put my thumb right here, I can't really see anything. I would think my thumb is really big, but when I put it in perspective, like my thumb is small compared to y'all, you know? And so because I place my thumb here in front of my face, like this. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Sorry to dance while they can see you.
SPEAKER_00:Like that. When I do this, it would the perspective is your thumb is heated. Uh but when I put it in perspective, and I realize that, like, no, I had it too close, I was too close to it. And the same thing with our circumstances, sometimes we see that it's bigger than God because we're too close to it. Whether a family member has died or uh we're living in like a fear of the unknown of a new job or a new, like we've moved somewhere and it's a new unknown. Those things seem bigger to us than who God is because we're too close to it. And sometimes it's valid, sometimes we're it's a valid thing, but we shouldn't stay there. That might be a season where you know we're grieving. That's a whole that's not, I don't think that's really fear-based, but like things that we're like.
SPEAKER_04:Well, some people are afraid to move forward.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so it's because we're too close to it. I I think that when we put God in his right perspective, we begin to see how big God really is compared to the things that we were fearing. And so that that whole thing about boldness, when we realize how big God is, you got less fear to step out and do things for him.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I just want to say thank you for saying yes to being on the show today. And I hope that you as a listener are uh have been able to receive something beautiful from this message and also from the book. I pray that you will pick it up, Amazon. And well, thank you for watching Overcomer, um, the Mango Wind show. I'm gonna give it to someone that's a little bit famous and buy it in someone's mind, maybe someone that's a little bit different and I'm given to, and that's a beautiful quote. And the book is awesome. Um I commend you for the work you're doing and putting it in that's a lot, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of
