The Maggie Wynn Podcast
Overcomer, walking in freedom, healing from past hurts, and trauma. Walking in Forgiveness, grace and mercy. https://maggiewynn.com/FB: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=547354566IG: Overcomer_Wif
The Maggie Wynn Podcast
How Growth, Truth, And Kindness Break Racial Walls
What if we’re fighting the wrong battle—attacking skin while ignoring the heart? We sit down with Pastor Dr. Willie to unpack a bold claim: racism fades when people grow, repent, and learn to see one another as individuals made in God’s image. The conversation moves from raw personal stories to practical strategies any church or community can use to turn division into durable unity.
We explore how truth sometimes offends before it heals, and why that sting can be a gift if it leads to repentance rather than rebellion. Pastor Willie shares a powerful framework he calls cultural windows—shared points of connection that break through cultural walls. Think multicultural worship that welcomes every voice, visible leadership from diverse backgrounds based on character and calling, and discipleship that trains people to resist generalization and read context before judging motives. We also talk about Rwanda’s decision to outlaw tribal identification after genocide as a sober example of how policy can disrupt cycles of hate, while insisting that only transformed hearts produce reconciliation that lasts.
For leaders and parents, the episode offers concrete steps to raise the next generation without handing them our trauma. You’ll hear practical youth strategies that make Scripture engaging, like a “Bible search” challenge that ignites curiosity and builds biblical fluency. We dig into character formation—kindness, humility, and longsuffering—not as clichés but as hard-won habits that steady us when offense comes. And we share details about a new church plant in the DMV and chaplain training designed to equip people for cross-cultural care with courage and compassion.
If you’re ready for a faith-forward, no-spin conversation on race, unity, and spiritual growth—and you want tools you can apply this week—hit play. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs hope, and leave a review to help more listeners find the show. Your voice might open the next cultural window.
@maggiewynn YouTube
All right. Welcome. Welcome to the Maggie Wim podcast. I'm your host. Today I have an honorable guest with me. He's been here before, and I just wanted to invite him back because I believe that with everything that's going on, you know, I have I've been off for a little bit. I took a break, just to sabbatical, but I think that with Charlie Kirk's death and a lot of things that are arising right now with uh Latin America, Latinos in America, America in general, I thought he would be a great person to bring this topic up. And so I want to welcome to you, Pastor Dr. Willatita, to the show. And we're going to get into some really deep conversations that I've been wanting to get into with someone of a different race. And I was talking to him earlier, and I was telling him, you know, I know you do a lot of things, you know, the favor of God on his life is amazing when he tells me everything that he's doing. And there are just some things that I really wanted to share and ask him that hopefully can ignite something in America and in the body of Christ to be able to bring restoration to the race, the racism, the segregation. Because even though we say we we don't have it, it still exists in America. And so, Pastor Dr. Willie, I just want to thank you for being on the show today. And we had a conversation after, before the show. And it was getting really deep. Again, I should have turned it on because this was this is really good. But tell me, and right now you are you're in Maryland now, right? Yeah. And tell me a little bit about what's going on in your life so that everyone can know what it is that you do and where your heart is.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, first of all, uh Maggie, for having me here. Of course, it's the second time. I think it's the second time I'm I'm calling that. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Sorry. You turn off? Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, I think you can use it. Sure. I can buy it.
SPEAKER_04:It's a lot clearer because of the fan that's going on. I know.
SPEAKER_01:Go ahead, tell them. Yeah, wonderful. Uh again, uh, yeah, right now uh we in the ministry actually we're planning a church in the DMV area, precisely Maryland. That deals with uh uh DC, Virginia, and of course Maryland. So we have a church like there which we plan it. Our very first service is all those at church, and it's called the Heroes Place. Okay, thank you. Okay, yeah, so actually uh we right now we're planning a church in the DMV area, and uh it's called the Heroes Place. And the the the reason why we we chose the DMV area for now is because the laws have been talking to mind a lot. Um one of my goals, even before coming to the USA, was to have a mission based in DC itself, the capital city or the United States.
SPEAKER_04:A mission based here in America, okay.
SPEAKER_01:And precisely also in DC. Washington, DC being the capital. You know, and uh uh yeah, so right now, so that's what we're doing, and also with regards to the ministry, there's a lot which we're getting into. We have a launching of of of fully the ministry in November the 8th and the 9th in the DMV area, and uh um we'll be launching different aspects of the things which we do. So right now, that's where we are, and uh yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, great. I know that uh so the launching is the launching of the the new church that you uh you church planted, right? So you're considered an apostle. We're talking about that earlier. You're also an apostle, a chaplain, a pastor, a doctor, apostle. Like this is walking a lot of shoes there, sir. But I wanted to talk about because I was sharing with him how I was listening to this video, and one of the things that really caught my attention was this young pastor who is from Echo Church, uh Cedra, and she was talking about Pastor Jamal, how he was talking really bad about um how the black people can support Donald Trump and consider that there are African American black, you know, and that, you know, who's quoting these things on from the pulpit, and she was sharing how can you say those things when you are when heaven is not going to be segregated. And so I was sharing with Pastor uh about what is it that we can do as a body, as humans, to be able to stop the racism, stop the you know, the judgment, and really heal that part of all of us because it's not just now African Americans, now we're talking about Latinos, you know, you know, a lot of I hear a lot of comments, you know, from Hispanic people toward Mexican Americans and Mexicans about them not being from America and a lot of really bad things. And so it breaks my heart. And I think that what I was thinking, how can we do away with that? Because when someone looks at me, they're gonna prejudge me. And I see it, you know, I can see it in their face. But when they get to know me and realize I have a mixed baby, I have mixed grandbabies, you know, both white and both black and Mexican, it's like they get a it's like I see them relaxed, more relaxed. And so I know that we you were telling me that, but I want you to tell me again what you were saying because it is so, so good.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, thank you, my dear. Uh yeah, I think that actually is a very uh it's a real concern, um, especially uh in a society like this one today, which I think that uh people get really overly sensitive to the point wherein they they want to make they want to build um a don't hill on what on every little thing. And I think that we should stop generalizing things. If I come out as a as a person and I make a statement that may seem offensive, people shouldn't look at that. I was I wasn't sent by the black people. I'm not I'm not representing them. So people should people should stop generalizing things. You know, deal with people as individuals, for example. If someone was to do something, for example, like like for example, if someone was to do something, you know, we shouldn't we shouldn't generalize it. We should not generalize it. We should look at individuals, people do things based on their heart disposition. Based on their heart disposition. And so we must be able to relate with the heart of the person and not just you know, not generalizing things, for example, because uh we have to go past past um you know the color of our skin. Of course, yeah, the color of the skin, yeah, of course. So what I'm saying is that people, when when someone says something which doesn't really make sense or it looks offensive, it is a heart issue. It's it is the problem of the heart. Not the presentation. Not the present of the color. It's a heart problem, not a race problem, not a color problem. So if I was to say something to you which was offensive, it is it is based on the state of my heart, not the color of my skin. Because there's I may say I may hate you as a person, but then be other another black person that will love you. So it if the problem is is not the color of the skin, but it's the heart issue. So I think that is what we must that that should be a consciousness. And when we look at it in that perspective, then we'll we would this whole issue of racism is gonna eventually die a natural death. It will die a natural death because even in Africa, for example, you know, um wherein you have blacks, for example, like let's say, for example, in Rwanda. I went to Rwanda to preach this several times. You know, more than 20 years ago, you Rwanda went through a crisis. There was this genocide wherein two different tribes were fighting each other, the Tuxis and the Hitos. And these are all black people in the same country fighting each other. That is tribalism and all of that stuff. Now, when they overcame a crisis, the president of Rwanda, Kagami, you know, passed a law, the pastoral law, and the law has to do with you, don't ask a person what tribe he belongs to. If you ask a person the tribe he belongs to in Rwanda, and and and and you know, if you ask a person what tribes they belong to, you can be given a jail sentence. You go to jail just for asking someone's tribe, because the problem they went through was that of tribalism. So racism is it's in that same line. You know, it's I think that in our interactions with people, for example, we should go past the color of their skin. If people say some things which are wrong, or you know, which we consider to be wrong, it is the if the problem is the real problem is the heart of that person, not the skin color.
SPEAKER_04:So, how do we as humanity overcome it? How do we manage to bring that wall down?
SPEAKER_01:Okay. First of all, I I would say we have to outdraw our past. Every society is coming from somewhere, every society is a sum total of everything they've been through. The way you think today is influenced by your past and all of that. So we've we've all gone through experiences. That's true. I have met ladies that tell me all men are wicked just because of the experiences with men. So they come to the conclusion all men are wicked. And and that and and that I was talking to a lady like that who said, all men are wicked, and she was asking me, Pastor, please, I need your counsel with regards to certain things. All men are wicked, and so she wanted my counsel or something. And I told her, I'm also a man. So if I'm wicked, why do you need my counsel? So I'm gonna realize you have to outgrow your pain, you have to outgrow your past. It's true, people hurt you, it's true. It doesn't mean every man is like that, it doesn't mean every person is like that.
SPEAKER_04:So, do you think that maybe they need to ask themselves at that question? Because I know I had to ask myself, you know, when the whole Charlie Kirk uh incident happened, you know, he was assassinated, you know, on live TV, went viral, and that was very horrible to think about his children in the future being able to see a video like that, you know. And, you know, it wasn't from a it wasn't a black person that killed him, it was a white person that killed him, you know. But it but at the same time, it was like we have to speak about it because he there's some things that we can say, and then it gets misinterpreted by someone else that is not the same color that I am, and because they didn't like it, immediately they throw out the race card. Exactly. And I'm not just talking about, you know, blacks, Hispanics, Latinos, everybody throws it, you know, out when it's convenient for them to use. And I think that it's abused in the wrong way.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's very much abused in the wrong way. In fact, the day Charlie Kirk was shot, killed, I posted a video about him that morning of one of the videos which he did, you know, in you know, there at the university where he was shot. I posted a video about him celebrating what he was doing, only to be shot that by by 1223, you know, um the time of them, he was shot, you know. And and I followed Charlie Kirk. When you look at Charlie Kirk, for example, you know, I like him, I like his openness, his genuiness, and the fact that he says it just like it is. And think about it, for example, you know, um I mean, I also said we have a problem of overly sensitive.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I was just gonna say that we're you were you were right about that when you said that earlier.
SPEAKER_01:It's very overly sensitive. Overly sensitive. And we people already have a way to think, and they don't want to think out of the box. But you see, the problem that the you know once someone says something, we have to be able to look at the context in which they said it. I've never seen Charlie Pearl being racist. I'm black, he's white. If he's racist, if he hates black people, then I'll have a problem with him. But I'm black, he is white, I don't know him from Adam personally. I'll follow him. You see, truth is very powerful, especially if the kind of things you say are things which people don't want to hear. They always want to build a story around that to call you names and all that stuff. Even preaching the gospel, there are people who say, Oh, Willie Brothers is full of hate because of the kind of things I stand on truth. You know, and so that's the nature of truth. The Bible tells us in Hebrews 4, verse 12, that the word of God, it's actual, it's not ice cream, it's a it's a search on both sides, shot on both sides. So there is just one where people will not feel offended, you know, when you put genuinely the truth.
SPEAKER_04:So it's supposed to offend, correct? Yeah, right? It's the word of God, it's a two-edged sword, it pierces through bone and marrow, and it's supposed to offend. So my question would be now, once it offends, what is our response? Well, the proper response. It's a repentance. Say that again, Pastor. It's a repentance.
SPEAKER_01:Not really because the word of God expenses offend, but it exposes our hearts. Exposes our hearts. And when the word of God begins to expose our hearts, what we we need to do is to repent. Because if we don't repent, then we then what what we are into is rebellion. If you read Acts 2, Peter is preaching to the most 3,000 people, talking about Christ who was killed, you know, the day of the day of Pentecost. And the word of God pierced the hearts of the people. They said, Men and brilliant, what then shall we do? Peter said, repent. That's what you need to do. Repent. You know, you know, repent. Charlie Clark was a great person, you know, stood for truth, preached the truth, even when he knew that that truth was offensive. People don't people didn't want to hear it because people are unwilling to turn away from their own ways. And because of that, they won't want you to talk to talk about it because every time the word of God is being preached, it's like you're shining a light through darkness. And if someone wants to remain in darkness, then shining light becomes offensive, not because the light is offensive.
SPEAKER_04:So how can I, and I hate to, I don't hate, but I don't like I don't like using the word black Mexican, you know. I'm doing it now because I want us to come to an understanding to let people know that this really is happening. But I grew up with my sister, she raised me to not use those words.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_04:She despised it when I used why do they have to be white? Why do they have to be Mexican? Why can't you just say the person with the pure pretty smile? Why can't you say the person with the blue shirt? Why do you have to add that behind it? And so uh I want to know from me, from like my perspective, how can I bring healing, which I know that I can't, I know God does, but I know that we also have to walk in that light in the love, right? Because there could be something that I'm doing. Like I can I have to come, I ask myself really hard questions. Like, are you really prejudiced? Like, are you prejudiced about this? And I and I mentioned to you earlier, I said, I I believe that I was prejudiced for a while with my own race because I grew up in a Hispanic church and my mom was very wounded in the church by a lot of uh members. And she was a praying woman, she believed in the Lord and she helped a lot. But me seeing a lot of things go on in the church made me want to pull away from there. And then afterwards, I just didn't want to go back because I thought that they were all the same. And I think that's right. You say we label people from one experience, we live in that experience and we don't heal from that experience. That's right. And then we label everybody else. But I want to understand because I don't, if there's something in me that's not bringing unity to the body of Christ as a Christian, as a believer, as a woman of God, then I want to be able to break down this barrier and look at you not as a black man, but as a man of God. You're just a man.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_04:And I don't know how to, like, I want to be able to convey that. And I for me, like personally, you know, I don't know, I've shared this before, but personally, I've never found black men as uh uh, how would you say, a threat to me because it was a black man who saved me.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_04:He he rescued me in in a very traumatic time, and I'm very thankful for him for that. But I never was a black men were never a threat to me. I always found them warm and and protectors whenever I'm around a black man. I tend to feel that way because it was my experience with a black man. Now someone else could have the same experience, but they could be, it could have gone south the wrong way, and now they see a black man or you know, a man in general, and they're very protective. So I want everyone to understand how can we as a body and bring healing to America and bring healing to the body of Christ and to the church where we're not segregated in our churches, what would be the key?
SPEAKER_01:And I Yeah, I I I think the the key is gonna be growth. It's childish to it's childish to bypass a person's heart to relate with the fall of the children. I mean, yeah, a lot of people don't think they need growth, but but but if you're at the reason why you don't think you need growth is because you're not growing. That's good. Yes. Say that again. The reason why you don't think you need growth is because you're not growing. Yeah. If actually we we we we are drawing, then we would realize the importance of growth. Because even Paul himself said, when I was a child, I spoke like a child. How he knew that he had grown was because the things he used to do before the childish, he knows how to look back into time to see when he was acting cowardly. And now he sees that he sees a difference. It's the difference that he sees that makes him to realize I have grown. So if he do not grow, you will not be able to make out the differences. So I think that we need to grow. We need to bypass the whole issue of colour of skin. Believe me, if it was a black person that killed that shot Charlie Kirk, the media, the news media would have said the black person was racist. Now, if it was a white person who was shot at Charlie Kirk because the person is white and shortcut Charlie Kirk, now it's it's not talking about racism, you know, and all of that stuff. No one is saying the guy was racist because it's the same race. So, which means that oftentimes even our analysis as to what is race, racist or not, even at our analysis is quite wrong. Because we don't really go into the details of the issue. We don't go into the details. Why did the person shot Charlie Kirk? If it was a black person, the first conclusion is racist. But now that it's a white person shot Charlie Kirk, no one is talking about racism, which is a problem. So I think that we should grow, we should learn to realize that people, individuals, make decisions. That young guy who showed Chadikirk, he didn't consult his parents' opinion, he didn't consult the opinions of others, and he took a decision personally to shoot Chadikur, it is a heart problem, not the color of the skin. So I think we ought to outgrow that. If we outgrow that, that is when the healing process is going to begin, because then we don't begin to see others like enemies, we see others as friends, as brothers, and all of that stuff. So that is where it actually begins, you know. So growth is gonna be the very first thing, you know, that would happen. And then also, you see, because uh also we we have to be able to, you know, uh teach the young ones. I think there should be course, I don't know, I think it's probably in the USA, you know, so I don't know exactly what they what they really spotted in their schools, but courses should be developed on how to deal with the issue of racism. Courses should be should be should be developed, and children should go through these courses to the point wherein you can't even make a difference between the black and the white or Hispanic or whatever. You just deal with people as human beings.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Now, do you find it hard as a pastor um to be able to bring that into the congregation?
SPEAKER_01:Personally, I don't find it difficult. I don't, first of all, my um my my studies, my doctorate degree actually is in intercultural studies. So I'm someone that is I'm used to different cultures. I learn to relate with people. You know, I I don't learn to judge why people do certain things the way they do them, you know, because what is reality to you in a particular cultural setting is not necessarily what is a reality to another person in a different cultural setting. So I want to be able to look into that context where the person's finding themselves, why do they behave or act the way they do act, you know, and all of that stuff, you know. So for me, it's not a difficult thing, but well, it's not a difficult thing for me. I think principally because I think God has been able to work on my heart first and all with regards to that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I was good. I was just saying that earlier. You have so much favor with people. Like God has given you all this favor.
SPEAKER_01:You know, God has been able to work on my heart with regards to that, and you know, and I've learned to understand different cultures, to relate the people, to know that people will not always think the way I think or do things the way I do them, and and and and and be cool with that, as long as it is not breaching uh biblical principle to be cool with that, you know, and and all of that stuff. So for me as a pastor, it's not it's not a difficult thing, but um there could be a lot of pastors who will find it that very difficult and very challenging.
SPEAKER_04:Because you were saying also earlier about how you have your congregation and then there's things in your leadership that you have not open uh not put anyone in place. Yeah. Tell me, tell me why.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yeah, so I yeah, yeah, you know, so like as a dynasty, we have different departments, you know, and uh there are certain departments which I purpose in my head to say, look, listen, the person that is gonna be the leader of this department is gonna be a person of a different race, whether it is white, whether it is Hispanic, whether it is Indian or however you want to call it. And just because, for one reason, just for one reason, not because a black person could not occupy it. Because, okay, I would have said, Okay, well, right now the leaders which I have more are black people, so let them occupy it and yeah. So I would have still done that, which of course, someone looking at the distance may be like, I think Pastor Webby is a racist, all his leaders are all black, and all someone may look at it like that, you know, but which which might have not been the case just simply because those a hand who were available for those positions were just black, you know, but again, still with the consciousness that still, I still purpose in my heart to say, look, listen, there are certain departments that someone of a different race will be able to occupy so that when people, even those who look who watch my distance, they can be able to see that look, listen, we uh uh uh we you know we practice what we preach. We diversify it, we make it, you know, give everybody everyone the chance, and so that people, because the truth is, I mean, and that's why you have today in America churches which are just typically white, typically black, and typically, you know, because yeah, one of the things which I'm teaching now, my leaders, is what I call a cultural window. Cultural window. A cultural window. Well, that's my terminology. I like it, exactly. I came up with that, a cultural window. I like it. A cultural window is okay. That is, okay, you're Hispanic, for example, I'm black. Let's say you're of a different culture, I'm of a different culture. By by by just by that, just on that cultural perspective, there should be a cultural wall that divides you and me. The kind of food you eat, I don't eat the kind of food, the kind of lifestyle you have, I don't have that just the fact that I'm black from Africa, you are Hispanic, for example, the automatic is a cultural war. That somehow, like the one at the world who told Jesus, you are a Jew, I'm a Samaritan, we have no dealings whatsoever. Automatical is a cultural war. Now, a cultural window is a hole within that wall that permits that even though there seems to be a cultural wall, you know, the window permits interaction. You get it? So the window becomes an opportunity to break that wall. So I teach them how to identify cultural windows. Those points.
SPEAKER_04:Can you give us a few?
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Okay. I'll give an example. Let me give an example. Let me give an example to give. The woman had a well, and Jesus was a Jew, she was a Samaritan. Based on their cultural differences, the Jew and the Samaritan had no dealings whatsoever. They could not even drink from the same container. So Christ said at the world, give me a drink. No, you are a Jew. Our Samaritan, we have no dealings whatsoever. But that well itself was a uniting factor. That world was Jacob's well. Jacob was the father of the Samaritans and the fathers of the Jews. So Christ sitting at that well, even though the Jews and the Samaritans had no dealings whatsoever, yet the Samaritan could not chase the Jew out of or out of that world because they have a legal right to that world, for example. So that world served as a uniting factor. So, so so with the culture of window, you're looking at what are irrespective of our differences, what are those things which can unite us? What are those things that we can agree on? Now you take advantage of that, and if you take advantage, if you can agree on that thing, you can take advantage of that and break that wall. And and break that culture of numbers, for example. Like, for example, in a practical situation, for example, in a church setting, one of the places wherein you can create a window. You know, a window that people of different races will be attracted even to that church. One of the places you would have to do, even with the choir, the music. Music is a universal language. I sit down and I sit, I sit down and I enjoy South African music, but I don't understand South African language. I don't know what they're talking about, but I can read from my spirit that this one is talking about God. I can feel it. Though I don't understand it, I can feel it. I can and I can really feel the message, though not understanding. Music is a universal language. Now, music can become a cultural window. A typical black church, if they want to diversify their church, one of the things they have to work on is their music, is the choir.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it's the choir. If you keep on singing only songs that Africans are used to, it's not going to attract the white. No. You have to, you have to, you get it. You have to be able to, your songs have to also be inviting.
SPEAKER_04:Inviting. Inviting.
SPEAKER_01:And those you and and I mean, if you can have a multicultural choir, it's a done deal. So your songs have to be inviting. A white person should feel like I can come there and feel and flow with the worship. For example. So we have to be able to identify those cultural windows, those areas that we can take advantage of and break through the cultural wall. So that what is actually supposed to divide us, when people look at us and expecting that we should have no interaction one to another, we can break through that. And once you break through that, then you realize the person that you are building a wall at ease is just like you. No difference.
SPEAKER_04:Do you think that this because I know you did the chaplain scene, you're also a chaplain yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Do you is that something that is also taught within your chaplain program as the teacher?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, of course. Yeah, yeah, of course. Doing that chaplain program training, we teach about that, how to break those kinds of how to interact with people, even from different cultures and stuff, how to deal with people. You know, yeah, we do that.
SPEAKER_04:That's good. I hope you guys are listening. This is really good. I'm enjoying it. You know, I just want to take a break for those of you that are tuning in. This is uh Pastor Dr. Willie Teacher. Did I say that right? Teacher.
SPEAKER_01:You're right, my dear.
SPEAKER_04:And this is a Maggie Wynn podcast, and I'm inviting, I had invited him to come on back to the show to share a little bit about what he's doing. He has uh just started a church in Maryland, and he's going to be having his launch November the 8th and 9th.
SPEAKER_03:That's right.
SPEAKER_04:So if you want to be a part of that, we'll link the details under our um at the end of this podcast. I do want to share his website. Uh, it is gospelheroes.org. So uh gospelheroes.org, you can find out more information. He does have a lot of videos, um, YouTube videos about him. One of my favorites is when he goes to the airport and just wins souls for Christ right there in the entire lobby and on the place. So he does a lot of mission work in America. You know, we are missionaries to another country, peace missionary. To America, which I think it's really, really cool. And I've invited him to come and just share this interesting topic on how to overcome this racial wall that has been placed for years and years and years. And not just with blacks and whites, African Americans, but Hispanics, Latinos, you know, and I say that because I know people that are prejudiced against Mexicans and prejudiced against Latinos and Chicanos and all of that. And it's it's sad to hear those things when it you when you look at it, you know, that's that's a child of God too. And I don't think that God would say, well, we're gonna put the Hispanics over there in heaven and the black people over there. And if you are uh, you know, whatever over here, I think we're all gonna be together because we are spirit. And I think when we overcome that, that's when we will be a better country, a better people, and the the correct way, the proper way, the healed way of being a body of Christ. So I do want to ask you uh a few more questions. I know we have a few, um, we're doing good time good timing right now, but in mind uh what strategies have you found most effective for leaders, leadership development within the church to raise up the next generation of shepherds, teachers, and mission leaders? Because you were talking earlier and you were saying what some of the uh people are doing now is they're passing the same traumas on to and that's not that's not everything, not just racism. We pass our hurts from the man that wounded us, the woman that wounded us, you know, the teacher that put us down, whatever. We we carry those traumas into our next future, and that's children have our when we have our children, we just pass those things along, and then they're repeating the same cycle of hatred toward an individual because they're not healed as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Uh first of all, uh, what I would say is that you you have to be able to have law for the younger generation and understand that every phase of life has an age that you know you need to know exactly how to scratch it. You know, it uh you know interesting. Yes, every phase of life has its own age.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:You need to know exactly what to what to scratch the age with, because you know, the young people they have an age. If you don't know exactly how to scratch it, you all what you'll be doing will be a waste of time. They still feel the age. You you need to know exactly, first of all, you have to have love for the young for the younger ones, passion for them, and find out what is it, find out what where the attention is. Find out you have to find out where the attention is, what the love. You know, what are those things that characterize? How do I condescend to their level and minister to them? You see, in missions we call that um um adaptability, where when you go into a culture which is culturally different from where you're coming from, and you have to adapt to that culture without adopting it, especially if it has to do with certain aspects of the culture which are not right. How do I adapt to that culture without adopting those wrong elements within that culture? So it's very important. So, first of all, have a look for the younger people, know exactly what motivates them. How can I contextualize? Maybe you want to teach them about the the need for them to read the Bible and pray and spend.
SPEAKER_04:How do you motivate teenagers and young people to read their Bible? That's a challenge.
SPEAKER_01:Reading, first of all, can be a very boring experience. Yes, for fact. Reading can be a boring experience at times, especially if you're reading something which you don't like. Going to school, there were some subjects or courses which I didn't like. You know, I would prefer other courses than others. But every time I was in a class of a subject which I didn't like, it was a boring time. But if I was in a class of a subject which I like or it's exciting, so so reading generally is it could be a boring experience, especially if it's something that someone doesn't naturally like to read. Now, how do I tell a young person, or how do I make exploring the scriptures an exciting moment for a teenager when they have video games to play, they have social media out there.
SPEAKER_04:So many things.
SPEAKER_01:So I need to be able to, whatever lesson about how to study the Bible I have for them, I have to be able to contextualize it in a way that will actually motivate them to want to study. So in a ministry where you're beginning something something already with young people, which I call it a Bible search. A Bible search is a game where I get young people with prizes. We have a watch to give and start.
SPEAKER_04:It can't be money, because you know young people love money.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And and and it has to do with okay, we're gonna just ask them questions from the Bible. For example, we're gonna ask them questions from the Bible, and whoever gives the right answer goes with the prize. And also, with the Bible, so a young person stands away with a Bible, another one with the Bible, and they put the the the public what was it? Each of them put the Bibles like that towards each other. Is that okay? And someone is checking Habakkuk in the New Testament, and oh, and the first one to open gets a prize, for example. Now, because of that, we because of because of that, it now will motivate a young person. Wait a minute, wait, uh I must get the prize next time. They want to now find out to know exactly all the books of the Bible. Now, what is motivating them, wanting to know the order of the books of the Bible, is because I want to be the winner of that game. So they have an itch. We've learned how to scratch that itch. So he so he tries to now know it, and then he knows that there will be questions which will be answered, and he wants to read the price. So, so he wants to read the Bible to know certain things, so that when we ask the questions, he can get the answer and get his price. Now, in that process, even though it is the game motivating him, yet he's taught in the Bible. In that process, he'll get an encounter with God. And then the love for the word of God will then begin to naturally flow because of the encounter he gets with God while he's taught in the scriptures. But you need to know exactly how to get them to that place of wanting even to read it.
SPEAKER_04:How many youth do you have or young adults presenting?
SPEAKER_01:I won't really know the exact number now because we just began August the 3rd. You know, people come, some come, there's some some of them skip and come, but it it's it's actually growing. We we're excited with what the Lord is doing. And at times for the young people at home, we can get them like 30 of them in church. For the young people, and you know, it just it just it fluctuates actually.
SPEAKER_04:That's good. That's a good number. That's a good number.
SPEAKER_01:It fluctuates.
SPEAKER_04:Let's see. What what tell us about what you're gonna what the process is right now of launching the ministry that you have there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so so uh um right now we we're trying to just to share, get the word out by in the community, um, let people know exactly what we do, and uh as we prepare for the launching. Okay. Because it's gonna comprise of praying and commissioning our the leaders for those departments. Uh, we would also do um some of the leaders will do a presentation about their department, what they do in their department. You know, and uh and then also as we do the presentation, of course, our desire also is to be able to get people that can really um step off to say we want to be partners with what the Lord is doing. Yeah, and then we also have a gradation of chaplains. Uh we we have doors opening in.
SPEAKER_04:Because I know you had a recent uh graduation with all the chaplains in Dallas. In Dallas.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, we're having together one night at GMV. We've trained some more chaplains.
SPEAKER_04:When when is this gonna happen?
SPEAKER_01:It's gonna happen on the 9th, on a Sunday.
SPEAKER_04:There.
SPEAKER_01:There. Wow. Yes. It's gonna happen there. We we we trained some chaplains. Yeah. Some uh yeah, we have someone come from Germany, and uh yeah, we we yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You know, Gracie, hi Gracie, thanks for tuning in. That's that's my sister. Oh she's been on here before.
SPEAKER_01:Hello Gracie, nice to meet you.
SPEAKER_04:She says, in an imitating Christ, not being prideful, but humble, kind, and loving. Amen. I was reading this morning, I have this devotional about that I read, and it was talking just about that.
SPEAKER_00:Amen.
SPEAKER_04:And I was like, you know, I do need to be a little bit more kinder. I tend to be overly honest. It's a good thing. I think my delivery is not well. And so I I began to think about what what that scripture was telling me, and I said, mmm, because kindness is the fruit of the spirit. Yeah. And I've been asking the Lord to give me the fruits of the spirit. I want to I want to walk in them. And I know that that's part of me. I'm kind, but there are times where I can be very bold and harsh. But even I've heard when when I get upset, I'm really not I'm really not as mean.
SPEAKER_00:But that's right.
SPEAKER_04:I can be I can be assertive. But I do I did ask the Lord, I want to be kind, because kind people are likable in mind. So if you want to be likable, you have to be kind.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:For sure.
SPEAKER_04:And I think that goes back to what we were talking about in the beginning.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You know, that if you have that division with any race or anything or anyone to be more kind, you're more likable. That's right. People want to be around kind people.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_04:And so I need a lot of work. I mean, I'm kind and I'm giving and I love it, but there are times where I can be very that's that's okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, uh, you see, but by once the love of God is shared in our heart, and as we grow with the law, we would we would not even be able to realize uh those different things that we've got to be.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because you know, because the word of God, it you're right, it's supposed to correct it. It has to break the walls. And had I not read that scripture, I wouldn't have I would have thought I'm just fine. Yeah. What I said or what I did is fine. But then the God is telling me, um, you could be a little bit more kinder. And I think that if, and I had to take that to heart. Like, you know, you could be more a little bit more kind and you'll be more likable.
SPEAKER_05:That's right.
SPEAKER_04:You know, because it's it's it's sometimes it's hard to be kind to people that are mean to you. And that's where you have to walk in that humility of yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. You know, it of course it takes the Holy Ghost to really walk on our heart. You know, uh there were there were those days in my life wherein uh if you did me wrong, I was gonna take you to the place of prayer. And I'm I'm gonna, yes, and I'm not.
SPEAKER_04:It's not like my sister Elizabeth. She's like, you don't want me to take you to my prayer closet because I will deal with you.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yes, oh yeah, oh yes. I mean, there are things I've seen God do. If you did what I would consider like wrong to me, like seriously, I'll take you to the place of prayer. And I'm not gonna give God any rest. And my body saying, God, this person must be judged. This person must be judged. But you see, growing, knowing the word of God more, learning God's word, you know, I begin to realize that look, listen, um, when God begins to work on your heart, it it becomes easy to let go, it becomes easy to tolerate people. You would realize that one of the fruit of the spirit is long suffering.
SPEAKER_04:What is long suffering? Explain that to us.
SPEAKER_01:Long suffering, um, long suffering is is basically what the Bible calls a living sacrifice. Um, uh, for example, when you read Romans 12, 1 and verse 2, 1, it says, Paul says, I beseech you death of brethren by the mercy of God that you present your bodies to God, a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God. Now, a living sacrifice is different from a death sacrifice. I will explain to you what a living sacrifice actually means.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, put yourself in Africa for it.
SPEAKER_04:Put yourself together, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Put yourself in Africa, for example, in those different cultural villages, for example, they have certain beliefs, for example. They could believe in the ancestors. And they could they could believe that if in the if in the afternoon, for example, um uh uh a stray animal gets into your farm and begins to eat your corn, your crops at a particular time of the day, then that probably are your ancestors that have come in the form of the animal and they're eating. And and and so you're not supposed to stolen those animals, for example. So and so they're eating what you and your children have to live on. But because you know it's it could be your ancestors, for example, but you don't stomach. But at the same time, they're eating what you eat and your children, you're you're you're gonna live on. So you feel the pain of what is going on, but you can do nothing, you can't stonic. Now, it that is a living sacrifice because it's an ongoing thing. You can feel the pain, but you chose to let it go. So, long suffering it's just a minimum, if you if even when you suffer long, for for example, stay true to the word of God, just just stay in that place of humility, that place of brokenness, knowing that irrespective of what you're going through, at the end of the day, God gets the victory. At the end of the day, yes, God gets the victory. Like David says, even when I go through the deepest body of the shadow of death, he didn't say I will curse God. He didn't say, like John's wife said, curse God and die because of what John was going through. John had the fruit of long suffering. He said, Even if the Lord saved me, I will still worship him. And he humbled himself and he embraced whatever he was going through. He's not cursing God, he's not doubting God's word, he's still standing on truth, on faith, still standing on loyalty, believing that someday this pain will be over. That's long suffering. Because in that moment, most people in that moment will turn their back on God, will stop praying, will stop reading the Bible, won't even go to compromise. But but you said, Look, we said, No, I will embrace whatever I'm going through. I will embrace it, I would allow it to weigh on me, I won't allow it to cause me to diminish in my loyalty to God. So that is long suffering. So you endure the bond, you go through it, the pain.
SPEAKER_04:But how do you go through it when you and find that balance so that you don't become a dormat?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Because let me tell you why I say that. As you were talking, I was reminding myself, I was remembering the conversation I had not too long ago with one of my friends, and I was sharing with her, I was venting a little bit, and I was telling her some things, and she said, could it be that God is wanting you now to stand up for yourself? Because now you've taken it and taken it and taken it and taken it, and you've been in and they've been dealing with you in this harsh way, and now He wants you to stand up for yourself. Okay. But I'm like, I don't know, I don't think that would come out well.
SPEAKER_01:Standing for yourself, I think I don't know in what context the people whoever said that was saying, but um um I would rather say standing for God. You know, because there are moments that God may allow you to go through certain certain things. Or when you find yourself going through certain things, you know, um people it's true, people may have different definitions to that thing and all of that stuff. And the human nature is such that the human nature is We want to defend ourselves.
SPEAKER_04:Because better not to defend ourselves and like leave it in God's hands.
SPEAKER_01:Leave it in God's hands, I think. And it continues you to make us humble and don't jump, don't jump out of the fire when the footman hasn't met you there. He he definitely will meet you there. So there are moments wherein you embrace what he counted all joy and you go to diverse trials. That's a purpose, that's a reason. You know, and and all of that stuff. If if you know, so yeah, I don't know the question.
SPEAKER_04:Because I asked the Lord, like I want to be meek, like I want to walk in that in humbleness and humility. I just don't want to, I just don't want to be humiliated. And I think that they go hand in hand.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. You know, and it's almost like God is saying, uh, what for God to make you meek at times, he may humiliate in you you may feel humiliated.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:At some point. Imagine someone talking down on you publicly, and then the Lord still expects you to be quiet about it. You feel humiliated. You know, and so and that's why humility is is it can be it's not just.
SPEAKER_04:But it builds something in us, right? It builds that long suffering you're talking about. Oh, yes, oh yes. It creates in us that just scroll it off. It's not gonna stress me out anymore. Whatever, say whatever. You know, where I'm like, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:One of the things that will build humility in a person is is is you know daily, consistent meditation on God's word and an intensive life of prayer.
SPEAKER_04:An intensive life of prayer and meditation and the word of God.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because the more you spend that intimacy with the Lord, the the more you begin to diminish. When the before the Lord, like John said, I must decrease, he must increase. And the more you decrease in your own eyes before the Lord, the more you like. Yeah, the more you know.
SPEAKER_04:We just don't like the process.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's the human that's the human nature.
SPEAKER_04:We don't like that humbling process. We do not.
SPEAKER_01:That's the human nature, you know.
SPEAKER_04:So yeah, it's like, no. So what's next after your launch?
SPEAKER_01:We want to take over America for Christ Jesus.
SPEAKER_04:Amen.
SPEAKER_01:We we want to we just right now we have we actually building our teaching to step out in faith more and more, and we trust the Lord that um as He leads, we're gonna follow.
SPEAKER_04:That's good, Amen. Amen. Amen. That is awesome. Well, we're almost out of time. I would let you close and just whatever is on your heart, just feel free to speak to our audience.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, Maggie. You're welcome. God bless you all, and of course, it's a joy to be with you today and just to have you uh participate in this program. We we love you sincerely, and uh, we're praying that the Lord would lift you up mightily in the name of Jesus Christ. And I want you to know that your circumstances do not define you, and don't even allow anyone to define you because nobody is going to define you above themselves. People will always want you to feel that you're inferior to them if your dreams look out, they always want you to feel that you're inferior to them. When Joseph began sharing his dreams, his brothers became offended and all of that stuff. So I want to encourage you irrespective of what is happening in your life or in your environment or what you're going through, look up to the Lord from which you are the sure foundation. Irrespective of what you're going through, believe in yourself, believe in the Lord you believe in. Let God have a perfect His work in your life. Circumstances may be saying contrary, people may be saying contrary, people may be saying you cannot make it, you cannot do it, you cannot overcome. In fact, and what they are saying may seem like it's true because when you look at yourself right now, you you you seem to see faith, failure, you're you're surrounded by failure. You've tried this, it didn't work. You tried this, it didn't work. And somehow it's almost like what people have been saying that you're nobody now, it almost seems like it is true, it's real. But no, don't believe in that. Abraham Lincoln is one of the most celebrated presidents of the United States of all times. You know, and and and all of that, one of the most celebrated. But he failed about 14 different elections, be the legislature or whatever, about 14 different elections. Didn't give up. Didn't get tired. He pressed on. On the 15th election, he became the president of the United States of America. I mean, let's not even go far back, Abraham Lincoln, Donald Trump. Look at what he went through. He still kept on pushing, kept on believing. There were a lot of lawsuits against him and everything. And I mean, who comes back after having lost an election? Who comes back? Everything was working against him, and they said look, he will not even succeed to become the Republican already. He still believes in himself. Believe in yourself. They tried to take him out, but it didn't happen. Believe in yourself, you are able to become all that which God designed and destined for you. Just believe in yourself, believe in God, and keep on pushing on. And the rest will be history.
SPEAKER_04:Amen.
SPEAKER_01:God bless you.
SPEAKER_04:I like that. I like that. Um, so I just want to say thank you to everyone for tuning in. I pray that you would share this and go back and listen. This is a beautiful podcast. It's something new, but I just felt the Lord, we needed to talk about it. I want to have you back, and maybe when I go there, we can do something there as well. But please share, like, and I'm gonna link all of his information. So if you'd like to be a part of the launch, it'll be November the 8th and the 9th.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_04:And his ministry um Gospel Heroes Gospel Heroes World Missions or Gospel Heroes.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_04:It's Gospel Heroes World Missions. So there's some information there. If you want to know more about his ministry and donate or be a part of, please I encourage you to do so because I really believe that God has called in for such a time as this. I mean, his voice is um to speak to America about bringing back the principles, the Bible principles. I believe that this is a man of God that you definitely want to have in your church to minister as well. So please share and like again and just send us a comment. If you'd like to be a guest on Maggie Wynn Podcast, please send me an email, go to my webpage, MaggieWin.com, and shoot me an email, a message, and I will get with you as soon as I can. I want to say thank you. Have a blessed night, Doctor.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, my dear Maggie. You're welcome. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_04:Talk to you soon. Talk to you.
